...........AUTO vs. MANUAL........

[123456789SS]

IS THERE REALLY THAT BIG OF A DIFFERENCE?

WHAT DO YOU LIKE? WHY DO U LIKE THAT?

[mattinator1973]

Each has it's advantages.

6 Speed (M6): more RWHP, more control over what gear you are in easier to keep in the power band. Better for road coarses and better gas mileage. Much more fun to drive.

Auto (A4): easier daily driver, easier to launch, more consistent, no human error unless you are dumb and shift yourself, over all a better drag car.

Personally I like my auto put it in drive and go. When they tested the cars A4 vs M6 there was only a 1/10th of a sec advantage for the m6 in the 1/4 mi. Add human error, and inconsistency to that and advantade easily switches to A4.

It is all a matter of opinion!

[Trunks]

I prefer Manual...six speed...over automatic, just because i think its more fun...even though both of my cars are automatic, im waiting to pick up a 6 speed car...lol...but ive drivin stick before and imo its hell of a lot more fun then my autos :)

[Carlos01SS]

I LOVE my 6-speed. I'm definitely a corner carver as opposed to a 1/4 miler. I like being able to choose the best gear for the turn while I'm in it, as opposed to an auto deciding which gear to use. I've also been driving manual tranny's since I was 16, so that's 27 years experience. I really like the challenge of mastering the manual 6-speed! Manual tranny's forced me to better my driving skills, that's for sure.

I'm NOT saying that auto's make people worse drivers, mind you!

There's also a sense of "driving" the car, as opposed to the car driving, if you get what I mean.

[TwoFast4Lv]

Each has its place.

I prefer a Automatic for my car. took a while to find one around here.

My Automatic turns into a manual shift car at the push of a button ;)

[86RedRocket]

I like both. I've owned both on the f-bodies too. I'll probably go w/a 6-speed on my next car, but a stall on an auto. will do wonders at the track, and the rear end has a tendency to hold up better under the auto. as compared to the std.

[plan Z]

i have an a4 and i really miss the manual. wish it was a 6 speed but i got a good deal when i bought it.:( oh well its still a Z!

[Smokn '94 Z]

My car is an A4 & at the track I love it. However if I ever get another sports car it will be a manual. I love like mentioned the feeling of actually driving a car. I will never get rid of my Z now so maybe one day I can have the best of both.:spankme:

As for which is better? I think it is all preference. They both have their pluses & minuses... Also I do get to select which gear I'm in with my A4. I do it a lot on ramps & going around corners to come out already in the lower gear... Not as fun as the M6 but whaddya gonna doooo...
:chuckles: :drive:

[silva96]

I bought my 96 Zwith the automatic in 2000 wit 46000 miles on the clock in my opinion it would just about out run anything on the street bone stock the top end on this car is incredibly scary GM definately shoulda put a better braking system on these cars but now i wanna convert it to a t56 6 speed any opinions on will this require way to much work ?

[inutero]

:D

[86RedRocket]

Originally posted by silva96
I bought my 96 Zwith the automatic in 2000 wit 46000 miles on the clock in my opinion it would just about out run anything on the street bone stock the top end on this car is incredibly scary GM definately shoulda put a better braking system on these cars but now i wanna convert it to a t56 6 speed any opinions on will this require way to much work ?

Make sure the trans is out of a lt-1 car b/c the ls-1 trans. will not work. You mainly need the slave cylinder system w/ the clutch pedal assembly. You will also need the flywheel and clutch. I'm sure I forgot about something.

[DVS LT1]

The 6-speed is definitely a better setup for track racing, just because of the fact you've got more gears and can pick the right one for the situation.

For drag racing the 4-speed auto is basically fool-proof. I don't know how many times I've been playing around against M5 & M6 cars only to watch them totally screw up a shift (especially my buddies - and they ALWAYS seem to do it when you pull of a terrific run!). Not that there aren't guys out there who can really use that borg-warner, but I'm starting to understand the desirability of a manual transmission - you pull off a bad run or watch the other guy smoke you and... "ah well, YOU lucky I messed up my shift!"

The gears in my Z are so long that after my 1st gear shifts at 6000 RPM and KICKS into 2nd I'm already at almost 100 KPH (55-60 MPH!). 2nd gear shifts at 140 KPH (84 MPH). This messes so many guys up - they're focused on making that good first shift and they do it right and are like YEAH!....but I just keep screaming ahead. I know this gets into the younger guys head's so when its time for them to shift again they want to make it up and they do it and are like NAHHH - I f***ed up my shift! For the older dudes who can pull off all their shifts they have to watch my Z charge right up to 130 MPH before my 4th kicks in - while sneaking in 1 or 2 shifts of their own! It might seem boring on my end but it sure is funny!

I love my gears and tranny!

[inutero]

what do you have that lets the RPM's get so high before the gears change? sorry im still learning this stuff. a torque converter?

[DVS LT1]

To be honest I don't know! The Jet module thats plugged into my cars PCM is only suposed to advance timing (not shift points or rev limiter). I keep forgetting to ask the original owner everytime I bump into him - but since he had so many buddies who were mechanics and servicemen at the dealership my guess is that they probably reprogrammed the computer there.

Hypertech sells these Power Programmers (I've seen them for as low as $300) that you plug into the input underneath the steering wheel which let you take off the speed limiter, change the rev limiter, shift points, advance timing, etc... you do this all yourself and can make changes as many times as you want.

www.pcmforless.com is a site that will do all this and more to your cars PCM for $100 (but you have to ship it there and back and its a one time deal) They will custom program your shift points, rev limiter, timing, correct you speedometer for tire size changes and gear ratios, whatever you want.

You should check these out. However, if you have a stock LT1 you might not want to increase your RPM shift points because
these motors really lose steam after 5000 RPM. Although the cam I've got has really improved the engines high-end I still feel it dropping off just before 6000 RPM - and in 3rd gear it gets REALLY scary cause I've got to listen to the motor screaming for what seems like an eternity as it goes from 5850...5900...5950...5975...5990... :scared: ........6000/SHIFT! Way too long for my engine to be reving that high. I'm actually looking at getting that changed to shift lower & sooner.

[inutero]

yea, I was gonna say that in my car 6k rpm's is in the red.... that can't be good for your car:thinking:

[86RedRocket]

Originally posted by inutero
yea, I was gonna say that in my car 6k rpm's is in the red.... that can't be good for your car:thinking:

Give it hell and let it eat!!! You can't be scared to "rod check" it. :burnout: :drive:

[Steve n Seattle]

stock LT1 programs cut the fuel at 5800rpms. You can't hit 6 grand (or 6800 like Ellis ;)) without reprogaming the car.

I don't know who said 5000 is when they die, but he's wrong. PEAK TQ on my stock '97 (and most every stock LT1) is at 4800rpms.... peak HP is around 5000. To keep your gears on either side of the peak hp, you shouldn't be shifting until ~5500 or so. And the stock tach is ~200rpms higher than actual RPMs on average so be looking for ~5700 or get a shift light and pill-it for 5400 :)

[DVS LT1]

Its been a while since I've concerned myself with stock LT1 HP & TQ ratings, but I know for certain that peak torque on a factory LT1 was at about 2400 RPM (MAYBE 2800).

Ask anybody or pick up an old magazine and you'll see. The LS1 motor's peak torque was much higher at around 4000+, maybe thats what you're thinking.

[Steve n Seattle]

Originally posted by DVS LT1
Its been a while since I've concerned myself with stock LT1 HP & TQ ratings, but I know for certain that peak torque on a factory LT1 was at about 2400 RPM (MAYBE 2800).

Ask anybody or pick up an old magazine and you'll see. The LS1 motor's peak torque was much higher at around 4000+, maybe thats what you're thinking.

Not on mine. And I've got 3 dyno sheets, from 2 different dynos to prove it. :)

The engine put out 290ftlbs and above from ~1500 to ~5200 Peak was at 4800... but to be fair it's nearly flat with small wiggles all the way. Proclaiming a "peak" torque on such an engine is a bit of an instrumentation issue more than functional I suppose. :)


Regardless of the TQ curve, the HP curve dictates higher shift points than 5000. I'll send you a copy of my last dyno if you'd like to check it out for sure. My TA has 130,000 miles, stock exhaust/PCM/rockers/lifters... Only hp mod of mention may be the TB bypass and CAI kit. no headers or cat back upgrades. Shifting at 5 grand is really shorting yourself unnessesarily. Especially since the stock tach typically reads ~200rpms higher than actual when near redline (which is 5800 for most factory LT1 F-bodys).

[DVS LT1]

:cool: Dude we were originally talking about stock LT1 torque numbers? - I don't doubt YOUR engine is higher, mine too.

:thistopic My point before (if it even pertained to the other fellow) was that I don't understand why someone would want to increase the rev limiter on a stock LT1 cause they do in fact lose "steam" after about 5000 - :drink: I didn't say they "died" after 5k.

As for that guy Ellis you mentioned I can't image what 6800 would be like in an LT1 :wtf:

[DVS LT1]

290 TQ - that was engine dyno right?



cause if they were chassis dyno's and all you really modified was the intake you're sitting on a quite a RINGER!

[Steve n Seattle]

Originally posted by DVS LT1
As for that guy Ellis you mentioned I can't image what 6800 would be like in an LT1 :wtf: On a 1.6xx 60'... about 11 seconds. :) yeah it's fast, and that's on a STOCK BOTTOM END. 400rwhp through an A4 and he's running stock 350ci bottom. Let's just say there is "some" headwork to the stock heads, and a "small" cam. :p

As for my car... it's stock, and yeah it's a bit high for what's been done, but it's the heaviest 4th gen ever made (TA, M6, convertible, fully loaded) so it's not like I've got a speed demon. :( best I turned at the track was 14.2 so far... but every time out was fairly hot/humid and my front passenger rotor is WAY hot after each run so I know it rubbing some. Once I get new hubs/rotors we'll see just how accurate that dyno was (although a separate dyno said nearly the same numbers so I'm thinking the hp is fine, just my shifting needs some help). :)

[94' LT-1 Z]

i did hypertech computer upgrades and now mine shifts at 6k i like that though it acts more like a manual with a shift kit and takes off just as fast.. who says you can't bark your tires when gears shift in your automatic.

as for it shifting at 6000 rpm i dont think it is that bad the only thing that has happen to me is i have now twice snapped tranny mounts but they are cake to fix and cheap so..

[TwoFast4Lv]

"I" have arrived DVS!

yes Steves car is as stock as he claims an I have been with him(usually with about 12 others) when he dyno'd.

I am shifting at 6,900 with my HP Peak at 6,800. Stock bottom end.

As far as TQ Steves car is right in there. with a cat back he should make well over 300RWTQ and bump up to 275RWHP.

My Wifes car is a stock 95 Z28. Before headers at was turning 270hp/310tq.

If you are getting to much less then that my may want to check your car for problems ;)

BTW theise numbers are through Automatics :D so add at least 4% to them before comparing to M6 numbers. on the blue car it also has a heavy steel drive shaft and a 12 bolt so add anouther 3% for that ;)

Remember just because you can not get there does not mean it does not happen ;)

Ellis "Guroo"
"Fastest daily driven LT1 in the NW!"

[94' LT-1 Z]

you say your wifes car had 270hp before the headers, what kind of performance did they add and what kind did you get?

[TwoFast4Lv]

She got my SLP shories when i went to long tubes ;)

have not re-checked yet

[94' LT-1 Z]

sweet, let me know if you decide to get it tested again im interested in getting some headers.What kind of performance do your long tubes put out?

:southern:

[DVS LT1]

Originally posted by 94' LT-1 Z
who says you can't bark your tires when gears shift in your automatic

Buddy!, my tires chirp shifting into second gear and they F'n squel going into third. You ever seen the movie The Road Warrior with Mel Gibson?? It sounds exactly like the high pitched tire squeling in that movie.

now that I think of it, that movie is awesome and I'll never forget the beginning when Max/Mel/stunt driver stops the car by putting it into reverse. Did anyone else pick that up??? He's slowing down from like 60 MPH and he actually gets it into reverse and starts peeling/hopping the tires backwards while the cars still going forwards!

[94' LT-1 Z]

haha, did you get a little side tracked...:lol:

[86RedRocket]

I haven't seen that movie since I was a (very) little kid. Talk about a flash back to when times were so much better in my opinion. Back to the topic, I just bought another 6-speed. They're fun on the street.