Another sub-frame question..

[Jay128]

I have some good news (for me ;)). A guy in Ireland wants to buy just about all my spare parts!! Looks like hes going to spend about $2 grand to get everything to him. $2 grand, my goodness thats crazy. Anywho, he wants to make his car a dragger and taking my frame instead of ‘destroying’ his original sounds like a plan to him.

Now I know my sub-frame connecters are not the weld in kind, but how are they attached to sub? Do they lock in somehow or will there be bolts? And is there anything else I will need to worry about in getting it off? I know the main bolts will be incredibly hard to break, are there any tips/tricks on that? I am keeping all my suspension, so all that has to be taken off as well.

Thanks in advance.

[Ryatt-Motion]

There are so many different types of sub frame connectors. It is hard to tell what you have without seeing them. Do you hae a pic of them?

[Jay128]

No, not yet anyways. Thats ok, I was wanting to get an idea of what it would take to get it done, but Ill just have to wait to see what its like when I can go out and do it.

Thanks anways Rick.

[Ryatt-Motion]

If I am not mistaken, the most common bolt in SFC's for the 1st gen Camaro are secured in by sliding over the sub-frame mount and are attatched by the sub frame bolt.

[Jay128]

Alright. Well Im going to go work on her tomorrow so Ill see how it goes. Thanks Rick.

[Jay128]

Ok, so after a bit of work all the suspension has been removed and the main sub-frame bolts broken…

You were right in the front Rick, the connector is over the sub-frame and uses the same bolt, but it is also tack/spot welded in the front. And in the back it looks like its the bolt in kind but they are welded instead. So whats the best way to get this sucker off my 67? Is it time to cut and grind off those welds?

[Ryatt-Motion]

Jay that is exactly what you are going to have to do, unless you have access to a plasma cutter, that way you can surgically remove them.

[Jay128]

Nope, no plasma cutter. Well I guess I have quite a bit of work to do. Thanks for the help Rick.

[Ryatt-Motion]

No problem, I just came in from removing the gas tank. Nope, no build sheet. Some ass-wipe must have taken it years ago!

[Jay128]

Thats too bad, sorry to hear that Rick.

[Jay128]

Im getting a lot done trying to get the SFCs off :), but tonight I noticed what looks like some damage to the frame rails from where there may have been weld on connectors that were removed before the current ones were put on :(. Im guessing that because of the slight damage and holes Im finding around the welds and under the edge/lip of the connector that is in place now. Theres no way to keep the frame rails perfect when doing this, but I think Im doing a pretty good job on it.

My question is does there become a point where there is too much damage to the frame rails, or anything that can come back and cause problems later? And if so, can you weld a patch over the damage or cut and patch the damaged area, or is there a better way of repairing the frame rails where there is damage?


Thanks all

[Jay128]

So is this fixable......? :help:

[Ryatt-Motion]

Sorry Jay I missed this thread. You can replace anything on the first gen. If the floor is in bad shape they sell a complete new floor with all the reinforcements in place, they also sell replacement fraim rails as well incase your are beyond repair. I hope that helps.

[Jay128]

Ok, thanks Rick. I didnt know they had replacement frame rails, thats pretty cool. Ill get some pics up when Im done, and maybe yall experts here can tell me if its repair or replace.

Thanks again..

[Ryatt-Motion]

Cool, just get some pics up and we'll figure out what the dealio is.

[joe69standard]

your frame rail should be able to take this hit. Just take your time on cutting the SFCs out.

[Jay128]

It is going slow. For one I dont have alot of time to work (darn college and work :(), and two I am trying to do a good job on the removal process. Sadly the further I get the more previous damage I find :(..

[Ryatt-Motion]

It's better that you find all the damage now and deal with it. Don't worry Jay there is light at the end of the tunnell! :)

[Jay128]

Ok.. the work is still coming along slowly. Im about to the point where I have gotten most of the welds grinded off. My problem is its really hard to get the very last bit of weld along the edge because there is such little clearance to get tools under there to work. Im going to attach a picture, please excuse the sad attempt to explain it.

-The RED is the bolt hole of the SFC (not used obviously)
-The GREEN is the bolt hole in the frame rail. Looks like someone welded it in because they got the wrong SFC ( :confused: ).
-The BLUE is the damage I was telling you about. When I grind of the weld at that end I keep finding that hole is bigger and bigger ( :( ).
-The YELLOW I used to try to point out where it is so hard to finish. Right above the yellow is the last bit of weld I haven’t had the best of luck in removing.

If anyone knows any tips or tricks to help get this going better/faster I would appreciate it very much. Thanks.

[Ryatt-Motion]

You may need to rent a plasma cutter and surgically remove those salty SFC's. Then when that is done, I would look at replacing the frame rails because they too look very salty and may end up causing more problems down the road.

[Jay128]

:(.. I though that might be best as well.. :sad2:

Thanks..

[joe69standard]

Frame rails? Where?

Rick, do you know where full frame rails can be purchased? Cant find any in the catologs. If i cant get any its 2x3 all the way.

[Ryatt-Motion]

Frame rails? Where?

Rick, do you know where full frame rails can be purchased? Cant find any in the catologs. If i cant get any its 2x3 all the way.

I'm almost 90% sure they have them in the Classic Industries catalog. I will scope it out a little later and post back with my findings.

-Edit-

Joe in looking at your pic, the frame rail is the horn that fits behind the seat and ties in at the rear of the car. I believe what your picture is, is the rocker panel reinforcement structure. I'm not sure they make those, but then again I could be wrong. If worst comes to worse you may need to fabricate them yourself, or have like DSE make them for you.

[Jay128]

Hey guys..

I was reading through the other 1st gen posts and its awesome to hear what everyone is getting done (Ryatt, sierra, mike mitchell, Joey).

Anyways, I finally found the perfect tool for getting this job done. I had a friend over the other day and we were still struggling to grind the welds. My neighbor came by and we talked for quite a while, he just bought a 69 (plane jane) camaro! So after seeing what I was up to he asked if I had ever used a Dremel tool (which I had, but didnt own one). I went to HomeDepot and got some cutting wheels for it and it worked perfect! The grinders/cutting edge for the dremel is much smaller and the tool is sooo much smaller it did really great. I got more work done in an hour than I had done in 6-8 hours of work with that big bulky grinder. The dremel cutting wheel is a bit more expensive, and you do go through them pretty quick, but they are well worth it. So just wanted to let yall know, a dremel is definitely the tool for the job!

Thanks all for the help.

[Ryatt-Motion]

Right on Jay, I'm glad you are making progress. I have been at a stalemate as progress goes, and just for the record Joey, I looked in my Classic Industries catalog, and they do make all the components you need including the frame rails and the inner rocker structure for both coupes and convertibles. If you need part numbers I would be glad to post them for ya'!

[joe69standard]

post them!!!!

[joe69standard]

Still looking for a subframe Jay? I could get you mine and all my front suspention components/crossmembers/etc etc. Interested? I'll take some pics, make me an offer? The frames in very good shape, the bushing mount holes are good in the front four and fair in the back two, you could proply just weld the back one, it really isnt too bad. The frame is bare metal right now and its all solid. all the other parts such as A arms are in excellent condition. Only reason im parting iwth mine is cuz Im looing at buying one of those new HIPO frames by classic industries. If your interested!

[Jay128]

Well guys, I had great luck today! Got a friend over to help me and we got the rest of the welds cut and dropped the sub-frame and finally got it out from under the car. We only really worked about 3 hours today, everything went great. Tomorrow Ill try to get some pictures up of my frame rails and see what you guys think. Im hoping I could do a bit of repair on them and do with that, Id hate to have to remove those suckers. Thanks for the help.. :wave:

Oh also, My friend that was over today.. were working on a 79 caprice of his. I don’t know what tranny he has, but its an auto with a 350. I guess I need to get under it sometime and see if I can get some numbers off his trans and get some casting #s off his engine and find the HP on it. Hes thinking of going with a 327 in the car (just to be different) and would sell me the running 350 and trans pretty cheap (the trans does leak right now, we havent gotten into it enough to see why. Might be an alright deal if that 79 350 uses the same mounts as a 67.. anyone know if they do?

[Jay128]

Ok.. Heres some pics. For a while it looked like it the damaged area was getting worse and worse.. but it really doenst seem so bad now.. (??) So what do you guys think - Repairable? Let me know if I need to get some better pics up.. thanks all..

[Ryatt-Motion]

The 79's engine will bolt right in Jay. It wasn't actually until the newer style Gen II, III blocks that they got a little weird with mounting locations. Good luck man!!

[Jay128]

Thanks Rick.. What did you think about my frame rails..? they look fixable to you?

[Ryatt-Motion]

Jay, they look a little unsafe. Just to be on the safe side, I would just replace them.

[Jay128]

Thats too bad. I was really hoping a little patch work on them would be good enough. I found frame rails on Classic Indutries website the other day.. I guess thats just some more to add the all the new metal Ill be buying... thanks for all the help Rick.

[joe69standard]

yeah they changed the cam lift design in 85 thats the gen II SB

[Ryatt-Motion]

No problem man!!